Curse

RavenHQ · Feb 15, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I've recently played Sabway/Discordway so much I'm sick of having three Necros... so I tried the 3x RoJ build+ MM... but I think I'm actually sick of running 3x of the similar buillds so I'm trying to figure out how to make a decent Hero team by not using all the same profession...

Early on when NF came out, I would run hero/hench the old fashioned way, as if they were all hench- picking which professions/skills I needed for the moment. After awhile, I settled on to 3x SF E/Me/(Me/E) which I took almost everywhere. Then the Sabway and now RoJ.

In Sabway theres: The Player, MM hero, Rt Healer hero and (Curse Nuke SS hero)

Has anyone figured out decent builds that work using either Ritualtist or Monk as the Healer, Ele or Mes as the Nuke, and Ritualist or Necro as MM? And under the condition that none of the three Heroes have the same Primary?

Hugh Manatee · Feb 16, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I believe if you look for it there's a Rt/N minion bomber with jagged bones, and the 3 spawning spells that do stuff when you create summoned ceatures(one gives energy, one dos damage and one heals, if you use them with bone minions they all count twice), and a hero is very good about throwing around jagged bones and death nova. Even if you use a N primary MMs are good almost everywhere there's bodies for them to exploit.

Before I found out about sabway I used to have an Earth Ele stapled to my party bar when I went vanquishing. With unsteady ground, churning earth and ward vs melee you can knocklock and block most mobs in HM. I think he had mes interrupts, or a hard res or additional protection as I needed it.

Since I was a ranger I also used Norgu/Gwen a lot. I'd set them up as Illusion, have them take [frustration], read the description carefully on that skill, if you interrupt ANYthing, like if they're auto attacking and you hit them with savage shot, they'll take the +40 damage. Great for a apply poison/BHA ranger. I also gave him Fevered dreams, accumulated pain, a couple interrupts like leech sig, p-drain ect.

When I wasn't the ranger sometimes I put a standard apply+BHA hero in the mix with a few extra interrupts to exploit the Hero AI's insane interrupting ability.

I never used the paragons much, nor any of the melee heroes(they were way to wonky with charging and over extending, and never chained their skills right, like the hammer ones rarely used their KD>Crushing Blow combo). The only warrior Hero I ever found that worked well was a Skull Crack sword. [Skull Crack][sever artery][gash][savage slash]["watch yourself!"]["shields up!"][flurry][resurrection signet](this was back when WY! and SU! worked differently though, so tweak accordingly, and he's got a zealous weapon). This guy would beat the hell out of any caster he came across. He raped the stone summit monks in Sorrows Furnace during the split in that tower area with just him and our other human healer(I was was off radar with a healer hench or healer hero and he was acting on his own, the human monk stayed with the NPC while we got the items from that dredge cave).

I always used to make my monks Mo/Me with P-Drain or Leech sig and reveal/inspired hex or drain enchantment to help them when they got "spammy" with WoH, and assist the offense. I also liked Inspired/revealed hex against the monster only hexes in the garden of sewhatsit, and against wurm bile.

Daesu · Feb 16, 2009, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Sometimes I use an Ele as a protector/smite for melee classes that would benefit from enchantments:

Something like:

[ether renewal][aura of restoration][protective spirit][reverse hex][shield guardian][zealot's fire][strength of honor][balthazar's aura]

As for an Ele nuking build, you can use SH, there will be some AoE flee which you can use a snare or minions to contain:

[Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinai's Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Fire Attunement][Splinter Weapon][Death Pact Signet]

FoxBat · Feb 18, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Resto rits with energy drain and the like work. They aren't very smart about using OoS, I wanted to try Signet of Spirits some but it's been "nerfed" in PvE. If you have enough spirits they should spam essence strike though, and then you can hit that 14 channel breakpoint for splinter. The FC resto mesmers from HA are also fun, powered by either tease or edrain. Otherwise N/Rts are still very effective even outside of minion-heavy necro setups.

Word of Healing can make an OK healer bar. I hate the [Unyielding Aura][Patient Spirit][Dawyna's Kiss] etc. bar because they spam superpowered patient on people that don't need it and run dry fast. In general I hate monk AIs though because they spam dry so easy. Before RoJ I would run [divine boon][smiter's boon][defender's zeal] on a smiter bar, that makes for some decent redbar to catch what prots are missing. They spend alot of time/energy spreading zeal so I'd only use that in HM.

An ele on [ether renewal][protective spirit][spirit bond][reversal of fortune][aegis][aura of restoration][shield of absorption][infuse health] etc. is pretty strong, especially if you are a tank-type class. I don't really see them spamming Shield Guardian enough like a human would, and you need to watch for them being dumb and not always prioritizing ether renewal when they drain themselves in a really tough spot. As mentioned earth is great on AIs too.

Gwen on VoR-type bars well enough, just be sure you have waste not, want not for when there aren't casters around to pdrain. Bring an energy elite and they can spam clumsiness+wandering eye too. (100 dmg every 20 seconds to 1 foe aka Ineptitude is not worth it, esp considering their energy problems.)

[The Power is Yours!] is a fun skill for paragons in caster-heavy parties, although heroes don't seem to spam it as much as they should. Anyway standard motigon can handle party healing needs nicely, complementing the hench healers that usually lack that stuff... and you don't need a crazy paraway to do it.

Lourens · Feb 20, 2009, 08:44 AM // 08:44

I run a 3 ranger team packed with interrupts with a D/N Order its fun

Daesu · Feb 20, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

An ele on [ether renewal][protective spirit][spirit bond][reversal of fortune][aegis][aura of restoration][shield of absorption][infuse health] etc. is pretty strong, especially if you are a tank-type class. I don't really see them spamming Shield Guardian enough like a human would, and you need to watch for them being dumb and not always prioritizing ether renewal when they drain themselves in a really tough spot.

Yes, they dont always prioritize ether renewal, which is why I hestitated putting Infuse health in their bar, in case they cast that without ether renewal up or not having enough enchantments on themselves or both.

I agree that they dont spam Shield Guardian nearly enough. Maybe I would try replacing that with Spirit Bond.

Quote:

Gwen on VoR-type bars well enough, just be sure you have waste not, want not for when there aren't casters around to pdrain. Bring an energy elite and they can spam clumsiness+wandering eye too. (100 dmg every 20 seconds to 1 foe aka Ineptitude is not worth it, esp considering their energy problems.)

Waste not, want not is nice. The only time that I would bring Power Drain over that is when I actually need an interrupt.

fireflyry · Feb 20, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenHQ

I've recently played Sabway/Discordway so much I'm sick of having three Necros... so I tried the 3x RoJ build+ MM... but I think I'm actually sick of running 3x of the similar buillds so I'm trying to figure out how to make a decent Hero team by not using all the same profession...

Good luck with that.

Your basically saying "I'm bored of my heroes having near constant energy and ability to spam with a side of I hate synergy"

Your basically asking how to gimp yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenHQ

And under the condition that none of the three Heroes have the same Primary?

Tbh Necro is king...obviously.

Paragons are close second and demand micro and much more build synergy for the bonus of killing faster than Sab.

At the end of the day there is more on offer but it's subpar in terms of ease of use.

Experiment, have fun and enjoy.

If your wanting to rack up titles, make HM a breeze and grind.....get over it.

Soul Reaping can't be beaten.

Good luck.

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Raven what is your proff? because its hard to suggest anything without kowing your prof.

Also, [ether renewal] Eles are bad, strip ER and GFG! you have no healer, dunno why anyone should give mobs a second way to counter you apart from kills.

Lourens · Feb 20, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Raven what is your proff? because its hard to suggest anything without kowing your prof.

Also, [ether renewal] Eles are bad, strip ER and GFG! you have no healer, dunno why anyone should give mobs a second way to counter you apart from kills.

[Ether Prism] is the way to go on Eles for energy management nowadays

Picuso · Feb 20, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

[Ether Prism] is the way to go on Eles for energy management nowadays

lolwut?

[Ether Renewal] can be stripped, of course, but you can cover it with any other enchantments.

Lourens · Feb 20, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

lolwut?

[Ether Renewal] can be stripped, of course, but you can cover it with any other enchantments.

lolwhut? [rend enchantments][shattering assault][assault enchantments][shatter storm][Expunge Enchantments][strip enchantment] cover enchantments for the losers imo

Daesu · Feb 20, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

To be fair, Ether Renewal can be stripped more easily from the hero because of the AI limitation, unless you micro it by covering it with Aura of Restoration everytime the hero recasts ER. Either that or take that chance.

On the other hand, there are not many places with deep enchant removal in PvE, so covering it would be enough for most cases.

Teknikaali · Feb 20, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

and the 3 spawning spells that do stuff when you create summoned ceatures

[Boon of Creation] [Spirit's Gift] [Explosive Growth]

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

[Ether Prism] is the way to go on Eles for energy management nowadays

^qft, for gimmicks ofc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

To be fair, Ether Renewal can be stripped more easily from the hero because of the AI limitation, unless you micro it by covering it with Aura of Restoration everytime the hero recasts ER. Either that or take that chance.

On the other hand, there are not many places with deep enchant removal in PvE, so covering it would be enough for most cases.

But question is why? Necs can have better energy management without all the fuss and if you are good enough at microing to make sure that ER is covered and fueled all the time Monk heroes are much better for you because you can as well make sur they never run out of energy in the first place.

AtomicMew · Feb 22, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I often play 2 Nec and 1 Mo build.

AotL MM, N/Rt healer and RoJ smiter... and myself as SS. Of course, I have a feeling this isn't what you're looking for

random.name · Feb 22, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Its PvE, anything can be made to work. If you think about it, it really shouldnt be that hard to build a group with good synergy.

talisk3 · Feb 22, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I run N/Rt healer, MM, and Searing Flames ele.

Gigashadow · Feb 23, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknikaali

[Boon of Creation] [Spirit's Gift] [Explosive Growth]

Unfortunately it turns out that the AI will not try very hard to keep up Spirit's Gift. I put this on my N/Rt (it works fine at 0 spec) anticipating some uber condition removal from my minion bomber. Unfortunately that skill has an extremely low priority and he will not recast it during a fight, only after the fight is over. I originally thought it was because it was at 0 spec, but apparently it is also true for Rt primaries with the skill.

edit: About the D/N orders dervish. I use it sometimes and it's fun to have around, although I can't really shake the feeling that I'm not really getting my money's worth out of that character. It feels like 2 orders + "a Rube Goldberg improved Light of Deliverance that takes up 5 skill slots". Obviously it cranks out more healing than LoD, but 5 slots worth more? I dunno.

moriz · Feb 24, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

as a general rule of thumb, never use any of the skills that had their effects changed. the AI does not know how to use them.

Super Igor · Feb 24, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

as a general rule of thumb, never use any of the skills that had their effects changed. the AI does not know how to use them.

[ray of judgement] says otherwise. :s